why do people talk about england being the old man. england is 23. france is 26. china is 4000
What happens to my English grammar when I have to do German-English translation homework
Not taking any chances
I scrolled past this and the guilt was too much
i REALLY NEED TO PASS ANYTHING HELPS
"Just to add on — Hong Kong is one of the rare examples where it did kind of end up being better off under colonial rule."
this site is wild omg
and he said the as a person with Chinese ancestry whose grandfather etc etc etc. amazing how ppl will use identity politics to validate bs
I’m a she, btw. Nice try. Are those of you commenting even Chinese? Do you even know Chinese history in detail? Nice how you call it bullshit without even explaining. Nice how you speak over someone’s perspective to fit your worldview. I don’t use identity politics to validate. I use it so people know what perspective I speak from. I KNOW European imperialism because hooray, my family got to experience that PLUS Japanese imperialism. So don’t fucking assume I am an apologist, just because what I explain is different from what you expect, because it’s not as black and white as you expect. This world isn’t quite so simple as that, you know. British rule over Hong Kong was very different from elsewhere because it was like the only colony where it lasted LONG after WW2, and by then the British treated Hong Kong differently. Did you even read my statement? I said RARE EXAMPLES, aka, colonial rule is normally SHIT.
Don’t blatantly distort what I have said. In my post I talked about how the Opium Wars harmed China. I talked about Japanese imperialism. But the point is the CCP was terrible for China. Okay? In no universe should COLONIAL RULE be BETTER than being ruled by your own people but that’s what happened in Hong Kong because the Chinese Communist Party just got so ideologically extreme they implemented all sorts of disastrous policies that really hurt a lot of people. Even though British rule was tinged with paternalism even in the latter years, the thing is obviously compared to the famine across the border, it was good. Do you guys even know that MANY mainland Chinese escaped to Hong Kong because they were starving during the Great Leap Forward? Throughout history some of the people who have been terrible for China were our OWN leaders.
While mainland Chinese nationalism insists Hong Kong and Taiwan are a part of China, that’s not the ONLY perspective. Go and ask Hong Kongers and Taiwanese that and MANY of them would disagree. Identity amongst the Chinese diaspora is EXTREMELY fractured. Taiwan doesn’t see itself as the same as China. Hong Kong doesn’t QUITE see itself as part of China either. They would like to at least, be politically autonomous and to keep their own systems and political rights that were gained under British rule. Because British colonialism in 1860 and the 1990s were VERY, VERY DIFFERENT as much as the way Britain got Hong Kong in the first place was wrong.
What you fail to realise is that you think only “European imperialism” exists. In much of Asia, people fear CHINESE IMPERIALISM. Go look up the South China Sea dispute. The Spratly Islands dispute. You fail to see how the Chinese government treats its own minorities is pretty imperialist and oppressive. And the same with Hong Kong. Instead of letting it exist as an autonomous province and recognising the years it was under British rule has led to a very different political system that cannot be forcefully removed, it now wants to meddle in its politics
Don’t presume you can speak for us. DON’T. Every country’s history is so complex and different DON’T CUT AND PASTE IT, alright? I cannot even begin to go into how colonialism in Asia was this wide gamut of different experiences and not uniform at all.
Stop thinking “white” or European imperialism is the ONLY problem we face. STOP THINKING THE ENTIRE WORLD IS JUST “WHITE PEOPLE OPPRESSING POC”. It is NOT.
u acting like i care about what u have to say and why u bolding ur own words tho? like sis no
Then, don’t talk about the history of my people when it’s obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.
When you have no idea “Hong Kong is part of China” is one view of Chinese nationalism, when you have no idea how diasporic Chinese have such different and fractured identities, how we have such confusing, contradictions towards our mother country because of how tumultous our history has been.
You said I was using identity politics to validate it. You? And what authority do you have to speak on Chinese history? If you are Chinese, it might be helpful to also recognise that again, mainstream Chinese nationalism in the mainland is totally different from the many different ways Chinese in HK, Chinese in Taiwan, Chinese in Indonesia see themselves.
i know one thing tho, i need u to chill and not appear on my notification. go ride a bike or something don’t beef random ppl on the internet like sis do better.
i wouldn’t have bothered but that comment being oversimplified was MINE, it was my commentary on that post on Hong Kong going around.
If you don’t want to be bugged by random people, you should think twice about writing comments jumping to conclusions and discrediting people’s POV so arrogantly when you clearly know nothing about my history.
People who want to put down the effects of British colonization and—let’s be real—protection of Hong Kong have NO IDEA what was going on in China and Asian geopolitics overall. Just as an example of the terror caused by Chinese Communist policies: The Great Leap Forward’s Four Pests Campaign.
Not familiar with it? That’s cool. I’ll tell you about it. Also known as “The Great Sparrow Campaign,” the Four Pests Campaign was one of the first actions taken in the Great Leap Forward from 1958 to 1962. The four pests to be eliminated were rats, flies, mosquitoes, and sparrows. The first three were exterminated for their ability to carry diseases, whereas the last, the sparrows, were wiped out for eating relatively tiny amounts of seed. The elimination of sparrows caused a catastrophic proliferation of locusts. The sparrow’s main diet was insect-based, so with that integral part of the ecosystem removed, locusts consumed the main food source of nearly every region of China that took part in the Four Pests Campaign. The resulting famines left an estimated 18-45 million people dead.
The massive famine is coupled with, of course, seizing land from Chinese citizens to “redistribute” into agricultural collectives and killing off entire cultures’ religions and histories either by force or intimidation. In Xinyang, over a million died in 1960; 6-7% (around 67,000 people) were beaten to death by militias. In Daoxian county, 10% of those who died had been “buried alive, clubbed to death or otherwise killed by party members and their militia.” In Shimen county, around 13,500 died in 1960, of these 12% were “beaten or driven to their deaths.” 
Given China’s history, it shouldn’t be a wonder to anyone why people feel strongly that Hong Kong was an example of a time when colonialism can be helpful. In Hong Kong’s case, it was a choice between two evils, where one option was significantly less full of murder and famine than the other.
 Dikötter, Frank. Mao’s Great Famine: The History of China’s Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958-62. Walker & Company, 2010. p. xii (“at least 45 million people died unnecessarily”) p.xiii (“6 to 8 per cent of the victims were tortured to death or summarily killed - amounting to at least 2.5 million people.”) p.333 (“a minimum of 45 million excess deaths”). ISBN 0-8027-7768-6.
 Dikötter (2010). pp.294 & 297.
P.S. Just to be clear, this one instance of colonialism working out for people doesn’t negate the experiences of millions in other countries/cultures and the atrocities that have occurred because of Imperialism (such as Tibet, the entire African continent, any indigenous nation of the New World, etc.)
Oh this is great, thank you! I was mad at first but I’m laughing at how eye-cringingly ignorant the original post now looks thanks to your information. Newsflash, just because you’re non-white, doesn’t mean you automatically understand the history of colonialism everywhere. Unless you want to suggest all these “POC” cultures are so homogenous and have uniform experiences, which they seemed to think.
Like seriously, oppression comes in many forms. Sometimes it is colonialism, when a very foreign power comes in. Sometimes…it is people who look exactly like you. Like in Mao’s China, like Hitler’s Germany, in Stalin’s Russia, in Pol Pot’s Cambodia. Colonialism as experienced in Asia was also very varied. French Vietnam was extremely repressive. British Malaya, less so. But British India? Another can of worms entirely (the Sepoy Mutiny etc). Like even HOW these countries were colonised were different. Malaya (modern Malaysia) was a lot more treaties, wheres Burma and India had numerous British military campaigns.
That same British Empire that crushed a rebellion in Kenya, that murdered unarmed people to put it down- the same British Empire that built industrial infrastructure in Hong Kong, that ended up separating Hong Kong from the worst excesses of Communist rule in the 1960s-70s mainland. It’s very easy to have the luxury of “ugh wtf Hong Kongers are so self-oppressed”. Please, for real people who actually experienced colonialism, it was often about choosing least bad options and making the best of it. That’s how HK-ers have rationalised and dealt with British rule in relation to mainland China.
Are you uncomfortable that “good” and “evil” don’t fall along such neat lines, that colonialism was full of contradictions? You should be, because this world is complex, not a cookie-cutter box. If you want that cookie-cutter box, you’re in good company. With the colonial powers who sliced up Africa, who paraded around racial stereotypes to generalise entire cultures.
Don’t forget we have to wake up Green Day tomorrow.
there it is, the joke we have all been waiting for…
wtf im in mutuals with so many cuties. so many rad folks. i like you guys a lot